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Posted By: peepsight3006TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
I've been a heavy for caliber Partition guy ever since they first came out. I am hearing so much hype about the magic in a TSX that I have to ask why we all don't shoot light for caliber TSX bullets for everything, like 130 TSX out of a '06 or 300 Mag for Grizzly and Brownies?
Wayne
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Wine tasting night?
Posted By: RoyceRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Steelhead
You relate everything to either sex or alcohol- From reading your posts, you'd get the idea that the entire meaning of life is wild women, fishing for steelhead,and hunting.
Do you mind if I write you in for president in the next election???
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
I'm sure there is something in life that doesn't have a thing to do with sex and having a good time, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.
Don't care to know either....
Posted By: RoyceRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Hehe-
Me either!
Posted By: rost495Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
I for one, damn sure don't want a light for caliber bullet on big or dangerous game.... I love X versions, but to this day in 30 cal I still favor at least 180s.... My buddy will be a guinea pig with 168s in a new 300 though...
They might be fine for lighter game though....
Posted By: jwp475Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Jeff there is little to no difference ion penetration between the 168 grain and the 180 TSX....I like the 180 because I like to shoot out to 1K and beyound and they have a higher bc...If one regularly uses a 300 Lead core then a 168 or 180 TSX will out penetrate it..I also fine the terminal performance of the TSX to be absolutely excelent...........
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Yep, X/TSX bullets don't mean you throw out all the caliber rules. But I'd use a 350gr TSX in my 416 just as I would a 400 grain something else.
Posted By: martinbnsRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
130 gr is silly, one bullet size smaller is sensible and very effective.
Posted By: magnumbRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Ya - I've always been a "heavy-for" guy as well, but I'm also open to suggestions.....most anyway.
I use the 180gr. TSX in my 300WSM and the same weight in my '06 using NP's. From my limited, but satisfying, experience and readings concerning terminal results with the TSX's, it has occurred to me that the 168TSX in this caliber would probably suffice just fine. Trajectories and velocities would show a bit of improvement and I expect the terminal results would remain stellar. There's no reason to think otherwise as all the hype concerning many of the new offerings are quite positive.
That said......old dogs, new tricks thing still has a pretty good hold.................
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
This old dog will stick to 160 to 175 for the 7's, 180 to 200 for the 30's and the midweight 270 for the 375. There won't be anything but Partitions on elk and big bear trips till I see a failure. {Maybe not then :)}
Wayne
Posted By: George_De_Vries_3rdRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Have taken one bull elk with the 168-gr TSX out of an '06 and at fairly long range and five animals of bull elk size or slightly smaller with the 270-gr TSX out of a 375; each of those was a smack-down including a Burchell's zebra which looked to be in the 700-800 lb range. And in the '06, 375, and a 340 Wby I've gotten the reputed good accuracy too. The next I'm planning to try is the 120-gr out of a 6.5-284.
So, stopping power? I don't know but as good as any I'd say.
Gdv
Posted By: UtahLeftyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
the old rules are not out the window. In general you can drop down one bullet weight increment and get similar performance but they're not likely to drop the minimum caliber requirements for DG just because you're shooting TSXs.
Posted By: allendayRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
As has been pointed out, you can't throw out known physical laws (sectional density, ballistic coefficient, etc.) and go totally light with the TSX just because it happens to be a very tough bullet.
Even so, the TSX is superbly accurate, and it shoots well downrange as well as at the usual, much over-used, often misleading 100 yd. test distance off the bench. That's one of my favorite things about the TSX, in fact. Many bullets will group well off the bench at 100 yds., but then at 200 and 300 yds. their real and honest accuracy traits make themselves known. Not so the TSX, which has been an honest bullet at all ranges in my limited experience with it.
AD
Posted By: UtahLeftyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
esp. with the heavier ones, they tend to shoot "better" at 200-250 than at 100 yds on paper.
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Originally Posted by allenday
As has been pointed out, you can't throw out known physical laws (sectional density, ballistic coefficient, etc.) and go totally light with the TSX just because it happens to be a very tough bullet.
Even so, the TSX is superbly accurate, and it shoots well downrange as well as at the usual, much over-used, often misleading 100 yd. test distance off the bench. That's one of my favorite things about the TSX, in fact. Many bullets will group well off the bench at 100 yds., but then at 200 and 300 yds. their real and honest accuracy traits make themselves known. Not so the TSX, which has been an honest bullet at all ranges in my limited experience with it.
AD
Yep, and one of the (etc.) laws is the conservation of momentum, and momentum (at any distance) is the mass times the remaining velocity. Stopping power is at least somehow related to momentum, and light weight bullets don't pack it, no matter how well they are constructed.
Wayne
Posted By: Chandalar JackRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Originally Posted by peepsight3006
why we all don't shoot light for caliber TSX bullets for everything, like 130 TSX out of a '06 or 300 Mag for Grizzly and Brownies?
Wayne
Not me that is for sure. I don't care how well they fly or how they hold up if they are too light - forget it! There is no magic bullet. Aside from that I too like using Barnes but it has to be on par for the course.
Posted By: WGMRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
realistic stopping power (with respect to bullets/rifles) has more to do with bullet construction, performance, and penetration ...
If you can get a lighter bullet downrange accurately, knowing it will penetrate and perform as well as a heavier bullet, then why suffer more recoil for no reason?
That's the thing all of the TSX users have figured out ... you can use a 120g or 140g 7mm TSX in lieu of a 160g bullet and get the same or better effective performance...
Not even the most staunch proponents of the TSX have suggested using a 130g .308cal TSX instead of a 200g Partition to get the same performance ... Instead, what you'll find is that 'they' tend to suggest use of a 150g TSX instead of a 'typical' 180, and possible a 168g TSX instead of a 'typical' 200 ... reason being, again, because those lighter TSX's will still get there with plenty of energy, and perform fantastically when they impact game ...
nobody is throwing out the rules of physics ... we're just taking advantage of superior bullet construction while saving recoil ... GREAT trade off in my opinion ...
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Oh, I think I'm beginning to see a trend. I, for one, refuse to puss*fy my big game stopping power for a little reduction in recoil. My 30's all shoot the 180 and 200 Partitions downrange with superb accuracy and authority when they arrive, and I love that bone smashing wallop if I should should need it. Probably half the elk flushed in the timber give only the south end of a north bound target, and the heavy stuff is ideal for that. Finally someone WITH gooneys outs the truth about girly loads for sissys. Fire away, I got my flame proofs on.
Wayne
Posted By: WGMRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Wayne ...
I won't waste my time flaming you ... only because you totally miss the point ...
If you read what I wrote, you'd see that what I said, along with many others, is that a bullet like the TSX can and will equally or out-perform most other bullets, even when using a lighter weight TSX ...
Penetration is not given up ... Terminal performance is not given up ... actually, NO concessions are made, and you still end up with a lighter recoiling load, and one that at least starts off faster than the heavier bullet ...
You either fail to comprehend the most simplistic of concepts, or you're simply trolling for an argument ... Either way, you're going to have a very hard time getting under the skin of those of us who have tolerated your constant pecking at trying to 'figure this out' ...
Posted By: UtahLeftyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
I just got done loading for the week. THey were out of 400 gr TSX at the whor*house. I got some 350 speers instead.
does this mean I can't play poker with ya'll anymore ??
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
A UTAH guy buying SPEERS?
What is this world coming to??
Posted By: UtahLeftyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
340, you're usually not redfaced ???
$50/box through the rigby is tough when you're feeding a 470 as well. I try to hide the speers at the range.........
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Oh, I was bored and thought I would try a different color!
grins
When I had my 416Rigby, other than the speers, the cheapest bullets I found usually to load were the Nosler 400grain partitions.
You are right, not an economical caliber to shoot!!
Now I be green.
Posted By: UtahLeftyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Posted By: UtahLeftyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
Posted By: rost495Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
I could go a 140/150Xish bullet equaling performance of a 160 lead... but not a 120 equaling it.
Regardless, IMHO its better to load up for bear and not need em.... IE I prepare for best penetration, worst shot angle and wildest winds....
Leads right back to heavy is better as the BC is better...
Jeff
Posted By: jwp475Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/09/07
A 150 TSX will retain 90 to 100 percent of its wieght,that's form 135 grains to 150 grains of wieght..if a 180 grain lead core retains 75 percent of its wieght that is a retained wieght of 135 grains of wieght retention....very simular performance....
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by UtahLefty
I need to do some of those cool avatars(emoticons?)
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Hey, ya'll, I'm pretty sure the TSX is a good bullet, so let's not belabor the point. The point is, I believe that MOMENTUM, not some other obscure (etc), is responsible for that smashing, knock em off their feet, knock down power that some loads are famous for.
Get out your ballistic tables and calculate the momentum of a 200 grain Nosler out of your 30 at 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards. Compare that momentum with the momentum you calculate with your load, whatever it is. With some minor exceptions granted, biggest momentum number wins. At least with me, and I've been killing REALLY big stuff for 50 years.
Wayne
Posted By: UtahLeftyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by 340boy
Originally Posted by UtahLefty
I need to do some of those cool avatars(emoticons?)
pm me, I'll send you a photobucket link and you can transfer them. I must have 4 pages of them by now....
Posted By: WGMRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by peepsight3006
and I've been killing REALLY big stuff for 50 years.
fantastic ... let's see some pics of that 'REALLY big stuff' ... after fifty years, I'm sure you've got albums full of photos to share ...
Posted By: BobinNHRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Jeff:+1. I have some recovered Bitterroots in the safe, various stuff from 270 to 375 cal, pulled from dead animals. One 375-250gr still weighs about 247 grains after busting an Alaskan BB through the shoulders; some 140 7mm's still retained about 95% after killing stuff.I get where you're coming from.Sticking to the traditional weights is still a good idea, but the really good bullets let you drop down a notch, leaving not much on the table.
If I shoot a 180 B'root or TSX that still retains 95%of it's weight, and penetrates through the vitals,is that not as good as a 200 gr that retains 2/3's?
Posted By: jwp475Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by peepsight3006
Hey, ya'll, I'm pretty sure the TSX is a good bullet, so let's not belabor the point. The point is, I believe that MOMENTUM, not some other obscure (etc), is responsible for that smashing, knock em off their feet, knock down power that some loads are famous for.
Get out your ballistic tables and calculate the momentum of a 200 grain Nosler out of your 30 at 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards. Compare that momentum with the momentum you calculate with your load, whatever it is. With some minor exceptions granted, biggest momentum number wins. At least with me, and I've been killing REALLY big stuff for 50 years.
Wayne
As it sheds wieght it also sheds momentum
I'm with WGM,Let's see some photos........
A TSX had no problem with this Elk
Posted By: rost495Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Got no issues with dropping down one notch, other than the BC issues that generally follow.... wind is the trickiest, not range, so I prepare for the wind....
Plus a heavier bullet that retains more weight sure looks like a win win for me.
If bang flops were what I just had to have I'd go lighter and faster and prepare to just have to suck it up. But it also seems to me that those that feel the need for bang flops also don't shoot longer shots, don't prepare as much etc.... Not a negative on them, but once you realize its easy to find game that might run a ways, and not panic about it, life is different.
Jeff
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
That's why I use 62 and 70gr TSX's for big game. Gotta love heavy for caliber.........
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Steely,
Is that out of your 22 centerfires?
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Yep
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
cool
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
62 TSX exit on a dink'ish deer...
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
That is impressive!
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
You should have seen the 3x3 Paul plowed with a 70gr TSX last year. Deer was going away and down hill, bullet went in high on shoulder a bit forward, traveled the spin and exited just about dead center between the eyes.
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
That will work! 
I am not familiar with what cartridge you are shooting those heavy TSX bullets, but what kind of muzzle velocity do you see?
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
223AI. The 62's are doing 3200'ish and I think the 70's are pushing 3K.
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
That is cookin, sounds like a fun rig.
Another gun/caliber I need to buy.
~sighs~
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Hell, get two....
One of the guys that works for me just ordered a 223, should be here tomorrow and then it will be shipped off for a new 1-8" twist 223AI barrel.
Good stuff does sell itself...
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
That does sound tempting.
Dang 'Campfire!
Always 'making' me spend more money!
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
That ain't nothing. I'd start saving cuzz I think the twin report is gonna be something special.....
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Yup, sounds like THAT will be quite the adventure...
Posted By: DarkStarRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by peepsight3006
Hey, ya'll, I'm pretty sure the TSX is a good bullet, so let's not belabor the point. The point is, I believe that MOMENTUM, not some other obscure (etc), is responsible for that smashing, knock em off their feet, knock down power that some loads are famous for.
Get out your ballistic tables and calculate the momentum of a 200 grain Nosler out of your 30 at 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards. Compare that momentum with the momentum you calculate with your load, whatever it is. With some minor exceptions granted, biggest momentum number wins. At least with me, and I've been killing REALLY big stuff for 50 years.
Wayne
This stuff is some funny schitt. First, no bullet can toss an animal or throw it off its feet. Energy doesnt kill an animal, destroying its vital organs does. If your magical cartridge had so much energy it would toss animals around, it would also toss you around. Basic physics- every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Second, momentum is dependant on bullet construction and design, NOT bullet weight alone. If a bullet was to expand to 2-1/2 times its original diameter and not blow off its nose it would slow a lot quicker than an equal weight bullet that only expand to 1-1/2 times it original diameter.
Third, i was not aware that ballistic tables could let someone calculate momentum,all you will find is velocity and energy figures as well as trajectory tables. Even if one does calculate momentum all that goes out the window once the bullet enters an animal and starts to expand. Somehow i feel that these important facts will be lost on this guy though. Why let facts cloud up the important stuff, like killing really big stuff for 50 years 
Posted By: BCBrianRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Now, me? I follow Barnes advice and step down one bullet weight. That means MY .22 caliber deer load uses the 53 grain. Kill's 'em like lightnin' hit 'em.
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
I'm a maverick........
Love the 25 cal 85gr X and the 110gr 270 TSX
Posted By: rem338winRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by rost495
I for one, damn sure don't want a light for caliber bullet on big or dangerous game.... I love X versions, but to this day in 30 cal I still favor at least 180s.... My buddy will be a guinea pig with 168s in a new 300 though...
They might be fine for lighter game though....
Used a 168 TSX, on a Bull Moose that dressed 820lbs, last year out of a 300 WSM. It penetrated some 3ft of moose and kept truckin'. The moose only went 10yds, and I believe it may have been from internal hemorrhaging, but I didn't think to ask him before I started gutting. Maybe I'll remember next time.
Posted By: MontanaManRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm a maverick........
Love the 25 cal 85gr X and the 110gr 270 TSX
Have you used the 6mm 85 gr TSX?.......just got a McM stock for mine and plan on using that bullet if it'll shoot.
The pic of the damage on the deer shot with the 223AI is impressive......
MM
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Check with Brad......
Posted By: MontanaManRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Still confused & filled with anxiety???
MM
Posted By: BobinNHRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
WOW!Lotta damage for a 22. Is that your 223AI?
Posted By: BobinNHRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
Steelhead: Never mind;read the rest of the thread.
Posted By: rost495Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/10/07
I use 6mm 85tsx in my 6mm woa.... 2800ish... very dead deer, that generally run a tad, no bloodshot meat, and it has done total length penetrations...
Steely. Just got in 62tsx for the 223 shorty.... will know after this season if I take that gun out.
Rem-- don't doubt it one bit, just that I lean towards 110% performance and am still just a bit leary of lighter weights, though that 12 grains shouldn't make any difference either way one leans... exit size of that wound on the moose by chance?
Jeff
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
See if I got this right. I normally use a 200 grain Partition in my 30-06 and bigger 30's. Dropping one bullet weight to 180 grain TSX with a maximum load of H4831 won't recoil as hard and provide better stopping power at say, 400 yds? Hmmmmm?
Wayne
Posted By: jwp475Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Why don't you just try a 180 TSX and you will know and not just be pontificating..........
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Good advice. Since I'm a results oriented, outcome based, sort of guy, how do I determine results superior to the performance of a 200 grain Partition. I can't distinguish a recoil difference with 180 and 200 grain Partitions at the same pressure.
Wayne
Posted By: WGMRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Originally Posted by peepsight3006
Good advice. Since I'm a results oriented, outcome based, sort of guy, how do I determine results superior to the performance of a 200 grain Partition. I can't distinguish a recoil difference with 180 and 200 grain Partitions at the same pressure.
Wayne
If you can't distinguish the differences in recoil, and if you already have your mind set that you should keep on truckin' like you always have, why are you continually trying to stir things up with regards to the TSX?
The bottom line is, the TSX is a wonderful bullet that's constructed better than just about anything that's ever been made for it's intended use. Those who DO use them already know what you're asking, and we continually tell you the answer ...
You can lead a horse to water ....
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
A horse, yes. An old dog, doubtful. If the TSXites would quit trying to get something for nothing, mainly stopping momentum, I could probably lighten up. However, from what I've seen and read, the true TSX fans totally denounce momentum as a factor in stopping power, which is what this thread is all about.
Wayne
Posted By: rost495Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
I"m a true TSX fan. All I"m worried about is max penetration and some expansion along the way. The rest I could care less about.
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Amen to rost. All I care about is penetration, expansion, and that thing we all forgot about post Roy Weatherby which is the wallop caused by momentum. At least rost speaks from the brain instead of goobely gook. It's sort of an insurance thing with me in having all three instead of just expansion and penetration. I don't know if it is a big factor or not, but just in case it is, with the Partition I've got it if is necessary for the shot I take.
Wayne
Posted By: TexasRickRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
I think I'm beginning to understand now.
It really doesn't matter what type of bullet you use or what weight or even what caliber. The laws of physics don't count either.
Just scream out "TSX" just before you pull the trigger and whatever game you are after will immediately fall over dead from a heart attack at the very thought of being fired upon with this magical bullet.
I think I'll trty it this weekend on squirrels. I'll be using a .22LR, but the squirrels won't know that......I can see it now. One yell of "TSX" and dead squirrels will rain from the trees in every direction.
Posted By: mscRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Amen, Frank. Also, as bullet material is lost momentum diminishes. I just love these esoteric discussions! This is why I lurk on these forums. Keep it up!
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Wow, what a trip! Next things will be Space Aliens, Bigfoot, numerous conspiracies, Santa, Easter Bunny, and all the other hokey crap people believe because someone said so and they desperately want it to be true. Now, I admit I'm not sure about the TSX and the ballistic fairies it carries with it, but I can recognize hokey physics when I read it.
Wayne
Posted By: DakotaDeerRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
I've been using the 130TSX out of my 30-06 at a bit over 3000fps. I've yet to recover one (bullet), but I've yet to not recover one (deer and antelope).
It shoots flatter and faster and outpenetrates any 150 grain bullet that I've used (bonded, etc). It also outpenetrates 180 CoreLokt cup and core bullets. It also destroys less meat, when that is occasionally an issue.
What's not to like?
Posted By: jorgeIRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
JJHack, has done extensive research on litereally hundreds of animals ranging from diminutive antelopes in Africa to elk here in the states. He's compared many bullets but his experience with the 168gr TSX in the 3006 is remarkable. Said bullet will outpenetrate other premium and conventional cup & core bullets of higher weight hands down. I prefer the 180 in my 300s but the TSX is one remarkable bullet. jorge
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
I'll bet a 130 grain TSX at 3000fps drops deer and antelope like they were hit by bombs. I only use 30-06 up on elk and prefer smaller calbers, with heavy for caliber bullets, for smaller stuff like deer and antelope. What's not to like? It ain't a Partition, and it doesn't float my boat for shooting at the South end of a North bound elk. Glad your happy with your TSX and I'll mention your plug to Fred Barnes when I see him.
Wayne
Posted By: STARe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
I just got back Sep 01 from my Caribou hunt with a 325WSM and 180gr TSX. The first day I was killed out with 2 nice bulls. The 1st bull was a 200yd one shot kill it went down in its tracks. The 2nd bull was about 130yds I shot it in the lungs it went maybe 5yds so a snaped a quick second shot and it went down the second shot was not needed at all. The rest of the hunt the bow hunters in camp used my rifle for the caribou thay hunted that was out of bow range. At the end of the trip the Kimber Montana and 180gr TSX killed 6 caribou and 1 black bear. All but one was a one shot kill but the my 2nd bull that it shot 2 times that was not needed. One dam fine bullet! All pass trough and all very dead!
randy
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Sounds like a great hunt, Randy!
PM coming your way...
Posted By: Jim in IdahoRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
First, someone define stopping power with a set of criteria that can be used to objectively evaluate all bullets. Folks have been trying to do that for years with more or less success from what I've seen.
If we can get people to agree on what constitutes "stopping power", then you can look at the TSX bullets and make a logical determination if they possess those qualities.
The discussion seems to have wandered into stopping deer and elk. I know deer aren't all that hard to stop or kill, elk a bit harder.
The TSX is obviously a great concept and appears to have redefined a lot of things we used to take for granted, but I think the acid test is for someone to stand in front of a good sampling (say 20 or more) angry grizzlies, cape buffalo, elephants or even charging meese and shoot them with 130 gr .308 TSX's, 110 grain .277 TSX's or something along those lines.
Y'all be my guest, let me know how it turns out.
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Nice booz!!
No doubt in my mind. A 180 grain TSX through the lungs from a 325 wizzum works on a boo. Probably anything else on this continent too.
Put me on the list for results from Jim's acid test.
Wayne
Posted By: SteelheadRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Folks love to complicate things....
Posted By: jwp475Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
Originally Posted by WGM
Originally Posted by peepsight3006
Good advice. Since I'm a results oriented, outcome based, sort of guy, how do I determine results superior to the performance of a 200 grain Partition. I can't distinguish a recoil difference with 180 and 200 grain Partitions at the same pressure.
Wayne
If you can't distinguish the differences in recoil, and if you already have your mind set that you should keep on truckin' like you always have, why are you continually trying to stir things up with regards to the TSX?
The bottom line is, the TSX is a wonderful bullet that's constructed better than just about anything that's ever been made for it's intended use. Those who DO use them already know what you're asking, and we continually tell you the answer ...
You can lead a horse to water ....
+1............
Posted By: dvdegeorgeRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
I think any bullet that shoots accurately,retains weight while still expanding has stopping power ...provided it's put in the right location ...pay close attention to the last part cause it's paramount to game stopping...
Posted By: jwp475Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/11/07
dvdegeorge,exactly............
Posted By: Mule DeerRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/13/07
All of this new-fangled talk about whatever you guys call these modern bullets (Partitions, or TSX's, or whatever fancy terms you use) is highly suspicious.
It has long been proven that a 20-1 cast bullet of at least 400 grains, .40 caliber, and at least 70 grains of FFg is the only way to go, and anything less is just mule-bibble.
So quit trying to fool inexperienced hunters with all your smokeless mumbo-jumbo.
JB
Posted By: ruraldocRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/13/07
Yep,
Elmer would be pleased that you've finally come to a reasonable conclusion. But I am fond of cordite, does that make me a liberal?
Britt
Posted By: RoyceRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/15/07
"Mule-bibble"...
I have never heard that wod before, and was totally gobsmacked to encounter it here.
Posted By: AlaskaCubRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/15/07
I can tell you that I shot a Dall Ram last month with my 300 WSM shooting 165 TSX's and it did knock the ram off his feet. Shot was on a downward angle trajectory hit high in left shoulder and exited low in right shoulder and kept on trucking. Distance was 160 ish. My partner has seen 4 other Dall Rams taken including his and all with bigger guns and heavier bullets and he could not stop talking about how that ram went down so hard from a 165 TSX in my WSM.It knocked the [bleep] off his feet, the wound channel was impressive as hell. I am sold on em, and I'll let you know how well they do on the burly Mountain Goat as I leave for my Goat hunt next week and will be bringing the WSM with 165 TSX's. Dangerous game....cant say for sure, only one bad experience with em so far and cant really call it bad, but not enough clear cut info from the heat of the moment to stand behind much, that was this past spring on a big black bear. And it did kill him but not as fast as I would have liked. But on clearcut good solid hits they appear to kick azz. All I can say is aim for the shoulder!
Posted By: RoyceRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/15/07
AlaskaCub
Just curious as to what kind of muzzle energy that 300 WSM generates to knock a Dall ram off it's feet (I am guessing the Dall ram must weigh at least 150 pounds).
My 375 H&H loads with 300 grain bullets would only shift a box of newspapers a few inches, as do my 338 handloads with 250 grain Partitions, and even the 300 grain Woodleigh. What am I doing wrong? The box of newspapers weighs maybe 40 pounds.
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/15/07
Perhaps he "spined" the ram?
I had(it sounds like, anyway) a similar shot at a mule deer down a steep hill at about 300 yards, I hit the animal fairly high up on the shoulder, the bullet(partition) took out both shoulders and just clipped the lower spine.
That deer flipped up and over like the ground had been ripped out from underneath the animal. All four hooves in the air...
Posted By: AlaskaCubRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/15/07
Originally Posted by 340boy
Perhaps he "spined" the ram?
I had(it sounds like, anyway) a similar shot at a mule deer down a steep hill at about 300 yards, I hit the animal fairly high up on the shoulder, the bullet(partition) took out both shoulders and just clipped the lower spine.
That deer flipped up and over like the ground had been ripped out from underneath the animal. All four hooves in the air...
Actually thats exactly what happened to my ram. And if you look at these pics youd never know it.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1619166/page/0/fpart/1
Shot looked square in the shoulder but was a bit high in actuality.
Posted By: 340boyRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/15/07
BTW, Alaska-
Congrats. on that ram and hunt.
Very nice!
Posted By: peepsight3006Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/17/07
OK, now what? I dropped one weight, from 200 to 180 grain from Partition to TSX. When seated to the base of the neck,which is where the powder charge is, the COL is too long.???
Wayne
Posted By: rost495Re: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/17/07
Seat it till its 50th off the rifling, or clears the mag box. You don't have much choice, start testing.
Posted By: WGMRe: TSX Stopping Power? - 09/17/07
Originally Posted by peepsight3006
When seated to the base of the neck,which is where the powder charge is, the COL is too long.???
Wayne
too long for what? to fit in the magazine?
Start by seating the bullets 0.050" off the lands, and see how they shoot ... if they do well, leave it there ... if not, push the bullets out towards the lands and test again ... if that doesn't work, then retreat from the lands and test again ...
point blank, just use normal load testing/tweaking methods and see what it nets you ...
